GPS-Sport ForenRun.GPS HardwareZephyr HxM or HRM for a user with GPS in phone already
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recneps 06.01.2009 16:55:08 UTC



@Martial,
I used to have an external GPS - before I unlocked the XV6800's internal GPS by upgrading to WinMo 6.1 custom ROM. It was a WinTec G-Rays2, and I loved it - accurate and it logged data points to internal memory as well. My only complaints were that the bluetooth connection to the phone was sometimes a little flaky and I did not know that I lost connection. It went through the washer in a pants pocket and although it worked after replacing the battery it was never the same.

My biggest complaint about the internal GPS is accuracy...on a recent ride with friends I logged about 10.9mi, while my friend with a cycle computer showed almost 15mi!! Recording 25% less distance than actual is a bit of a problem so I'm in the market for another external bluetooth GPS to use when I don't have a clear view of the sky (hiking, mountainbiking, etc.).
gmngueko 06.01.2009 16:15:49 UTC

we have nearly the same profile

@recneps
I have the HTC TyTN II, which looks very close to the XV6800, I'am also a mountainbiker (29er) (but I also do some running), I'am also a heavy rider 6'4" around 210 lbs. I'am also currently using a very old polar watch: accurex plus + interface plus.

indeed the internal GPS of the TyTN II is not the more precise and not consistant, I experienced some cases where I lost GPS connection while actually it was a clear sky at a place were it was ok previously. to avoid bad points in my trace I have since lowered the minimum acceptable DOP to 7 (so I won't get a point few hundred km out of my actual position). I'am currently experiencing with an external GPS too (holux GPSlim 236 which has a Sirf 3 GPS chipset).

I have a an article of a guy who compares the garmin forerunner 305 with the FRWD series for geocaching game, and the results where excellent (but the document is in french :-( ).

I bought the otterbox 2600 case (http://www.otterbox.com/) and receive it last week. the box is not small but I manage to ziptie the box on my stem. it's a very solid box and so now I'am able to see securely the rungps info while I'am biking. if the box was a bit narrower by 2cm it would be perfect, because sometimes I can touch the box with my knee on out of the saddle climbing effort but I'am not out of the saddle often for climbing so for me it's ok.
recneps 06.01.2009 14:44:12 UTC



@Martial,
I have a Verizon XV6800 (HTC Titan/Tytn). I saw the other thread(s) about the Zephyr devices - thanks for getting those answers.

Since my primary Run.GPS sport is mountainbiking, I really have no desire to risk my life or the destruction of my phone by handlebar mounting the phone so that I can be constantly distracted by the display. My phone stays safely tucked away in the mp3 pocket of my hydration pack on my back during a ride. As a heavier rider, the only information that I would like to occasionally see during a ride is heart rate, and a wrist-mounted display/alarm seems like the best place, unless Run.GPS can give me audible voice or alarm alerts at certain heart rate thresholds (which I think is possible).

I'm thinking of getting the Freedom 2000 keychain GPS (for better GPS accuracy over the internal GPS) and the Zephyr HxM. That's nearly USD200 of additional hardware unless I can get a device like the FRWD B100 here in the US that can combine the functionalities into one device for cheaper.
gmngueko 06.01.2009 00:32:46 UTC

cadence only for running

@recneps,
I got the confirmation from Robert, in another thread, that the cadence is only for running. but they are looking at a cadence for biking.

concerning the FRWD B100, it can actually read the pulse transmits by a polar hrm belt !! and display it on the phone running rungps. the polar watch would become useless in that usage (although feasible, I would not see the point on having the hrm displayed on the polar watch and rungps at the same time !!)
you should write a mail to sales@frwd.com to find out how to get it to the US (or if you can still find someone in europe who can buy it for you and then send it to you , if really not possible otherwise )

which model of phone are you using ?
recneps 05.01.2009 20:26:54 UTC



@Martial,
On second look, I would agree that they are reading the accelerometer data of the HxM as 'cadence', although it would have to be some pretty smart software to find a cadence when mountainbiking, given all of the seemingly random bumps.

I am contemplating going back to an external bluetooth GPS since my phone's internal GPS is not quite strong/accurate enough for my primarily forest-oriented activities. Due to this, I may consider the FRWD B100 (assuming I can actually get it here in the US), and have it display the HR on a Polar watch.

recneps
gmngueko 05.01.2009 16:10:15 UTC

cadence coming from HxM

the cadence is coming from the HxM so they are definately using the accelerometer data of the HxM (see latest manual).

I can see how one can deduce running cadence by analysing spike in vertical acceleration. but quid for cycling ? is it possible to get some kind of cadence by analysing the 3D acceleration info ?? I'am also waiting from some answers from Robert or Tom on this (see another thread).
I have seen in another thread that price for the HRM is around 90$ and for the HxM around 120 $, on top of that you need to add the postage cost, given the price difference I would go for the HxM.

my hesitation is more between the Zephyr and the FRWD B series (even if in my case the GPS is then redundant (or actually giving more battery time by not using the internal battery of my Htc TyTn II)).

Cheers,
martial
recneps 05.01.2009 14:52:10 UTC

Also trying to decide which one

I also have the same situation - I am not sure what additional accuracy/functionality the HxM product gives. I looked at the most recent manual and the fields added to the 'List of Available Displays' are limited to the heart rate data stream only - no displays for the accelerometer data.

Regarding the accelerometers...I gather that the accelerometers can estimate the speed of your body since typically there is constant bodily movement, but I question this accuracy when you are participating in certain sports. For instance, if you are cycling on the road and are coasting downhill, an accelerometer will sense virtually nothing even though you are moving at 20+mph.

Bottom line is that I don't see the usefulness of the HxM device if Run.GPS is doing nothing with the additional accelerometer data. As a mountainbiker, I think it would be neat to see a graph of accelerometer data even if it is not used to establish speed, etc. Tom/Robert - can you confirm that the accelerometer data is not used? Also, will the Zephyr devices purchased from Run.GPS be able to ship to the US or should I buy directly from Zephyr?

Thanks,
recneps
gmngueko 04.01.2009 20:19:04 UTC

precision of the HxM might be better

hello,
my wild guess would be that the precision of the speed/distance coming from the HxM, might be better than the one provided by the GPS chipset. I also think that in situation where there is no sky visibility (tunnel, etc...) the HxM will still be able to give the speed and distance while the GPS would not.

but I'll wait for Robert or Tom to elaborate more, this is just my wild guess.
also I don't now how internally RunGPS would decide on which source to use for speed/distance (HxM or GPS ??)

Cheers,
Martial
beneu 04.01.2009 19:48:49 UTC

Zephyr HxM or HRM for a user with GPS in phone already

Hello all,
Apologize if someone wrote on this topic, but my search did not find hits directly to my question... I have Smartphone w/ GPS already. It seems redundant to have the HxM with its speed/distance accelerometer capabilities. Am I missing some capability outside what my GPS can do if I just go with a Zephyr HRM?

thanks to all,

ben
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